I thought a dedicated thread might be useful. If utilized by all issuers, ICS has the potential to severely affect the success rate of would-be AOR-ers. As CardJuggler posted: ICS...based on inquiries per ADDRESS, which kills a tag-team AOR
Paraphrased from Visaicsdirect FAQ:Established in 1989, ICS is a nationwide database that contains bankruptcy, and bankcard application activity, fraud, and questionable data information.
ICS is not a credit bureau but is subject to the same laws like the FCRA and FACTA.
Contact the ICS consumer office, Advanced Resolution Services, at 1-800-392-8911 to place a fraud alert on ICS and request a copy of their ICS consumer report.
FW member's have some experience with ICS and their collective comments are included in this thread.
There also are some old 2005 posts by Persevering (from creditboards):one of them or this. Also a generic summary can be found in this book
Q & A below (Please add only confirmed information)
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Q== Which issuers pull ICS/ARS upon original application for credit (does this make bumpage futile)? A== FNBO, Infibank, Principal, USBank, ELAN
Q== Which issuers report denials to ICS/ARS? A== Bank of America, Juniper/Barclays, Wells Fargo
Q== Which issuers pull ICS/ARS for CLI purposes and/or account review purposes? A== Citi, CHASE, National City
Q== Is it possible to freeze ICS/Advanced Resolution Services?(Swishyx) A== State laws mandate that the CRAs provide mechanisms for individuals to freeze, and special consideration is given to identity theft victims.(TolmapS)
Q== How do I order a free report? A== Send written request to ADVANCED RESOLUTION SERVICES, INC. 6111 Oak Tree Blvd., Suite 400 Independence, OH 44131 or fax (216-615-7604). Must include drivers license, full name, address, social security number sample template letter source
ARS CONSUMER REPORT REQUEST FORM
Please send me a copy of my Advanced Resolution Services (ARS) consumer report, which discloses all
of the information in your files associated with my Social Security number.
Consumer Information
Full Name
Social Security Number
Street Address Apt. # _
City __ , State ZIP _
Telephone: Residence Business _
Enclosures
Copies of the following documents are required for processing of your request for your ARS consumer report:
Proof of Identity (Choose one, and check the box for the document you selected.)
[ ] Driver's License
[ ] State-issued Identification Card
[ ] Medicare Health Insurance Card
[ ] NUMI Form (Third Party Disclosure signed and dated by your local Social Security Administration office)
Your signature
Date
Note: To protect your personal information, your ARS consumer report cannot be provided without
your signature and all of the requested information.
ConsumerReportRequestForm.doc 1106
Credit Applications
Chase Citi (B & P) Columbus Bank & Trust (B) Elan (B) FIA (B & P) HSBC Bank NEVADA (P) Infibank (P) Juniper (B & P) Monogram Credit Card Bank of Georgia (appears to be GE) National City (P) Wells Fargo (P) WAMU/Providian (P)
General Inquiries (Account Reviews) Citi (B) Chase (B)
Prescreen inquiries
Clearinghouse Service Requested by Institution (same as Credit Applications above)
Clearinghouse Service NOT Requested by Institution Capital One Services (P) Chase (2 successful business card apps) Citi (?) FIA (?) Juniper (denied business card application) National City (P) Total System Services (?) Wells Fargo (?)
DO NOT REPORT INQUIRIES TO ICS Discover (P & B) Wachovia (P & B) Advanta (B) American Express (P & B)
DO NOT REPORT HARD CLI REQUESTS TO ICS Citi Chase
Message edited by: jackcrawfish on 2008-09-08 11:45:33 CDT
Cardjuggler 1 I phoned ARS: they wanted a FAX (or mail) including a copy of driver's license for address verification. Got the report; it's pretty minimal. From the cover sheet:- Any bankrupty proceeding reported for your SSN - Visa or MC bankcard issuers who have provided information regarding your SSN to ARS or have received information from ARS - total # of instances where your SSN has been used on a V or MC CC app in the prev 12 mo (24 mo for Colorado) - reports of unauthorized or fraudulent use of any V or MC assoc with your SSN
EugeneV 1 business card applications, approvals and denials are reported to ICS/ARS (at least Visa/MC) 2 FNBO (personal) declined my app based on the number of inquiries on my ICS Consumer Report and told me to call them at 800 995-2590 3 proof of adverse action is not required in order to request the report. Only your info and copy of driver's license 4 ARS/ICS is not a CRA. I do not know of a way to monitor it, other than requesting a free report if you were denied credit based on the information contained in it.
TolmapS 1 I believe inquiries stay on ICS / ARS for 1 full year. Also, sometimes soft-pull CLI or CL reallocation requests also result in ARS / ICS inquiries. 2 request your report from [these] guys. I got mine about 10 months ago, and it looks very interesting. They record every application for Master Card or Visa, sometimes even including credit increase requests. I would say that not every issuer reports the inquiries to ICS, but this is the issuers way of tracking a bit more info. Inquiries stay only for 12 months, supposedly.
Swishyx 1 got a decline (that was inaccurate) deleted from there once. BofA used the report and reported to it 2 [To] dispute one of the "declined" items:
First I had to order the report - faxed a letter to (216) 615-7642 requesting it, included a copy of driver's license. After receiving, wrote & faxed a letter including the following item:The purpose of this letter is to dispute the following inaccurate information on my credit file:
Declined Application Activity Section Item x Reference number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date yyyy-mm-dd Institution Bank of America, N.A.
Reason for dispute: Application was not declined.BofA never responded to their verification request, so it was dropped off of the report like any other CR item where the creditor does not respond
(unconfirmed) I believe ARS does the servicing for the ICS product. Unless others have a better understanding... please share
edit source: "Advanced Resolution Services ARS is a consumer reporting agency subsidiary of Visa U.S.A that assists financial institutions in evaluating risk, minimizing losses, and analyzing cardholder accounts"
and
"Lakeside Information Resources is a consumer reporting agency that serves as the liaison between consumers and the Issuers' Clearinghouse Service (ICS).ICS assists bankcard issuers in eValluating risk,minimizing losses; and analyzing cardholder accounts. "
To avoid the problems created by this, one could get a separate address for the spouse, and just do one good 12-month AOR every 13 months, which is what many people do anyway.
TyroneSchulace said:To avoid the problems created by this, one could get a separate address for the spouse, and just do one good 12-month AOR every 13 months, which is what many people do anyway.
I wonder if the inqs are immediate.Like you said, many people play this arbitrage game on an annual (13month) basis. However, I'm not sure a separate address for the spouse is required because it sounds like the ICS report is SSN specific (para #2):Q3 para #2: the most powerful predictor of ... credit loss is application activity for a social security number (SSN). Accounts with SSN bankcard application activity ... are significantly more likely to become bankrupt or charged off... The most telling SSN activity threshold is 6 or more applications within 90 days...My wife and I live at the same address. I'll be faxing my ICS report request today. I'm also going to fax Mrs Jackcrawfish's request form after I get a photocopy of her driver's license. Once I have both reports in hand, I'll compare the two and report back as to whether it is simply "address" based or combo "SSN-address" based.
Noted credit applications back to January 07 from:
FIA (separate entries for business and personal) Citi (business card not listed in this section) two from Monogram Credit Card Bank of Georgia (GE money bank -- thanks bozo007!) Juniper (separate entries for business (B Atl) and personal) Elan (business, I do not have a personal card from elan)
Citi Chase (I believe that both of above correspond to business card applications and these inquires do not appear in the "Applications received" section)
No prescreen inquiries
A section titled "Clearinghouse Service Requested by Institution" seems to match the applications.
Another section titled "Clearinghouse Service NOT Requested by Institution" contains entries from: Juniper (denied business card application) Chase (2 successful business card apps)
Nothing else noted (no info on balances or CL appears)
I do not see entries for my cards from: Discover (personal and business), Wachovia (business), Advanta (I only had the card briefly before canceling due to worthless CL).
Not sure what most of this means but I am dismayed that it appears to be so comprehensive.
BobbyRobert said:...Noted credit applications back to January 07 from:
FIA (I do not see an entry for my BoA business card) Citi (separate entries for business and personal) two from Monogram Credit Card Bank of Georgia (no idea what card this is for but it is dated during my first mini AOR, perhaps it represents GE and / or Discover) Juniper (separate entries for business (B Atl) and personal) Elan (business, I do not have a personal card from elan)
Citi Chase (I believe that both of above correspond to business card applications)
No prescreen inquiries
A section titled "Clearinghouse Service Requested by Institution" seems to match the applications.
Another section titled "Clearinghouse Service NOT Requested by Institution" contains entries from: Juniper (denied business card application) Chase (2 successful business card apps)I realize it's a stretch but, might you be able to verify which credit bureau was pulled for each of these inquiries and indicate whether they were bumped?Other than the two mysterious Monogram bank of Georgia I do not see entries for my cards from: GE (personal), Discover (personal and business), Wachovia (business), Advanta (I only had the card briefly before canceling due to worthless CL).I'll start a QS of issuers that do not report to ICS. Can you confirm whether the inquiries missing from your ICS report were from before January 2007?Not sure what most of this means but I am dismayed that it appears to be so comprehensive.Indeed. Now the real difficult question is: which issuers pull an ICS report?
BobbyRobert said:two from Monogram Credit Card Bank of Georgia (no idea what card this is for but it is dated during my first mini AOR, perhaps it represents GE and / or Discover) This is GE, its their private label credit card operation that issues store cards.
I made a mistake above, FIA did pull for my BofA business card (previous post edited -- sorry about the error). For some reason BofA pulled EQ for that business card (they normally pull EX for me).
jackcrawfish said:I realize it's a stretch but, might you be able to verify which credit bureau was pulled for each of these inquiries and indicate whether they were bumped? All of the inquires listed were bumped(long ago) with the exception of the FIA cards (which pulled EX). The three Juniper inq were TU pulls, Chase, Citi, GE (monogram) and Elan were EQ pulls. Can you confirm whether the inquiries missing from your ICS report were from before January 2007? Missing inquires were the same time frame as the others here so I doubt they expired and dropped off. I had no inquiries from before Jan 07 (date of my first AOR and other credit shenanigans). The cover letter said that it included SSN inquires for MC/Visa over the past 24 months. My wife applied for one citi card in this time frame, no sign of it here.
Monogram bank pulled my ARS on two consecutive days, I only applied for one GE card.
Indeed. Now the real difficult question is: which issuers pull an ICS report? That would be good to know. Only observation I can add is that I have had no rejections on 3 new business card apps (Discover, Wachovia (crappy limit) and Chase (nice limit) over the past 5 months despite the thick envelope that ARS sent. This however doesn't tell us much (my personal CRs are all top notch)
There is no record in my ARS of any pulls related to CLI requests
BobbyRobert said:There is no record in my ARS of any pulls related to CLI requestsWas there a separate section for CLI related inquiries as TolmapS spoke of?
Again (in the interest of being thorough), did you document which issuers you requested soft and hard CLI's from? If they were Citi, FIA and/or Juniper, it would support those issuers report original application requests but not CLI requests
jackcrawfish said: There is no record in my ARS of any pulls related to CLI requestsWas there a separate section for CLI related inquiries as TolmapS spoke of? Below is the language contained in the report. All section headings are quoted below (in order of appearance in report)
"ICS User Detail"
"The following sections identify institutions that received information from the issuers' clearinghouse service regarding your SSN. Please be advised that the number of credit cards you have applied for as well as the number of credit card applications otherwise associated with your SSN are key factors in determining whether an _ICS alert is issued_." (emphasis added, perhaps this report primarily serves a 'tripwire' function where they send an alert after a threshold of applications are received?)
1) "Application Received, Issuers' Clearinghouse Service Requested by Institution -- This section indicates users that accessed your consumer report for application review purposes" (this section includes FIA, Citi, Monogram, Juniper, Elan -- I have not applied for any Chase personal cards in this time frame)
2) "General Inquiry Section -- This section indicates users that accessed your consumer report for account review purposes" (sounds like a CLI section but this only contains inquires for my citi and chase business card apps (which did not appear in section above))
3) "Prescreen Inquiry Section" (empty for me but I have received no preapproved offers in more than a year)
The report is divided at this point, the "User Detail" section above ends and the "Furnisher Detail" section begins
4) "Application Received, Issuers' Clearinghouse Service Requested by Institution" (same data as listed in #1 above)
5) "Application Recieved, Issuers' Clearinghouse Service Not Requested by Institution" (contains a Juniper business card decline which did not appear above and two successful chase business card apps)
6-12) Deal with unauthorized use of various card types and bankruptcy.
13) "Account Number Report Section" (this is empty on my report)
Again (in the interest of being thorough), did you document which issuers you requested soft and hard CLI's from? If they were Citi, FIA and/or Juniper, it would support those issuers report original application requests but not CLI requests Going on memory here. I had hard requests with Citi (both business and personal) and Chase (just personal). Soft CLIs from BofA (FIA -- just personal), Juniper (personal) and Discover. So my experience suggests that Citi and Chase report applications but not CLI requests.
My report arrived. I added comments to most of the records itemized and have updated the QS with some of this information as well.
Notable:
USBank reports as ELAN
For obvious reasons, DISCOVER and American Express are nowhere to be found in my report (MC/VISA only). Advanta, Wachovia, RBS, Infibank and Pulaski/Iberia are also nowhere to be found.
The CLI's and denial applications appear in the "Application Received, ICS NOT Requested by Institution" section.ICS USER DETAIL The following sections identify institutions that received information from the Issuers' Clearinghouse Service regarding your Social Security number. Please be advised that the number of credit cards you have applied for as well as the number of credit card applications otherwise associated with your Social Security Number are key factors in determining whether an ICS alert is issued.Application Received, ICS Requested by Institution - This section indicates users that accessed your consumer report for application review purposes
02/15/2007 LARGE US BANK - CARD DIVISION (my employer)
08/21/2008 WAMU / Providian (AOR2.0 8/18 TU original inquiry)
General Inquiry Section - This Section indicates users that accessed your consumer report for account review purposes
07/30/2007 Chase (aor1.0)
08/01/2007 Citi (aor1.0)
08/10/2007 Citi (aor1.0)
08/18/2008 Chase (AOR2.0)
08/21/2008 Citi (AOR2.0)
08/22/2008 Chase (AOR2.0 they were concerned)
Prescreen Inquiry Section - This section indicates the users that accessed your consumer report for the purposes of making a firm offer of credit or insurance
No items on File
ICS FURNISHER DETAIL
The following sections identify institutions that reported information to the Issuers' Clearinghouse Service regarding your Social Security numberApplication Received, ICS Requested by Institution
IDENTICAL INFORMATION AS POSTED IN ICS USER DETAIL section above [excluding General Inquiries (account reviews)]
Application Received, ICS NOT Requested by Institution
03/29/2007 Chase (aor1.0)
07/30/2007 Citi (aor1.0)
07/30/2007 FIA Card Services (aor1.0)
07/30/2007 Chase (aor1.0)
07/30/2007 Chase (aor1.0)
07/30/2007 Elan (aor1.0)
07/30/2007 Capital One Services, Inc (aor1.0 - denied - offer had expired)
08/09/2007 National City (CLI request)
08/10/2007 Chase (aor1.0)
03/01/2008 National City (CLI request)
05/30/2008 National City (CLI request)
07/31/2008 Wells Fargo Bank (app denied - under my login, I inserted Mrs J's name)
08/18/2008 Total System Services, Inc. (???TSYS is a card processor similar to FDR)
08/19/2008 FIA Card Services (AOR2.0 - Experian freeze - denial)
08/19/2008 FIA Card Services (AOR2.0 - Experian freeze - denial)
08/19/2008 Juniper (AOR2.0 - )
08/20/2008 Wells Fargo Bank (AOR2.0 - Experian freeze - denial)
08/20/2008 Juniper (AOR2.0 - denial - multiple biz cards not allowed)
thanks for sharing. Did you do CLIs from companies other than National City? I had CLIs from Chase and Citi which did not show in my "Application Received, ICS NOT Requested by Institution" section. Have we found a weakspot here? (that would be better than the consistent bad news we have been getting about this).
I did request CLIs from Citi but never (as I recall) from CHASE... I'll check my 3ring binder of AOR1.0 for any adverse CLI letteers from CHASE later tomorrow...
Updates QS to differentiate how ICS/ARS is used by different issuers:Q== Which issuers pull ICS/ARS upon original application for credit (does this make bumpage futile)? A== FNBO, Infibank, Principal, USBank, ELAN
Q== Which issuers report denials to ICS/ARS? A== Bank of America, Juniper/Barclays, Wells Fargo
Q== Which issuers pull ICS/ARS for CLI purposes and/or account review purposes? A== Citi, CHASE, National City
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